Fore Hand Arms Company Serial Numbers
I have a basically identical Hopkins & Allen 12 ga 'forehand' shotgun, except the serial numbers and overall condition of course. Your gun is absolutely beautiful!!! Mine is not so pretty as most of these firearms turn out to be. After all my research, i conclude that my gun was produced around 1902 and sold for about $5.00.
What i'm finding is that most of the info i find tells me that these guns used black powder cartridges, and you can not use the modern smokeless powder cartridges. I also have come across several similar models of my gun up for sale, and the owners state they shoot fine using the modern cartridges. I also found this gun on the cover of American Rifleman Magazine, May 1976, accompanied by a box of shells in the more modern smokeless powder variety. I'm interested in whatever you might know, as far as ammo, parts, schematics, interchangeable barrels of different calibers, etc. I'd really appreciate any info you might be able to provide. Thanks, Josh.
I have a basically identical Hopkins & Allen 12 ga 'forehand' shotgun, except the serial numbers and overall condition of course. Your gun is absolutely beautiful!!!
Mine is not so pretty as most of these firearms turn out to be. After all my research, i conclude that my gun was produced around 1902 and sold for about $5.00. What i'm finding is that most of the info i find tells me that these guns used black powder cartridges, and you can not use the modern smokeless powder cartridges.
I also have come across several similar models of my gun up for sale, and the owners state they shoot fine using the modern cartridges. I also found this gun on the cover of American Rifleman Magazine, May 1976, accompanied by a box of shells in the more modern smokeless powder variety. I'm interested in whatever you might know, as far as ammo, parts, schematics, interchangeable barrels of different calibers, etc. I'd really appreciate any info you might be able to provide. Thanks, Josh.The gun appears to be sound mechanically.
If it has a fluid steel barrel, I would say go for it - have fun. If it perchance has a Damascus or twist-steel barrel, then keep it as a wall hanger.Best regards, BIGBORE.
You don't give enough info to make a positive ID.BUT.I can tell you this. Forehand & Wadsworth made revolvers in DA in both rimfire and centerfire chamberings, From 1871 to 1890 they were called 'The Forehand & Wadsworth Arms Company and there product was so marked.from 1890 to 1902 they were known as The Forehand Arms Company and any product from that DOM was so marked.Those EXACT markings and ALL OTHERS can date the firearm and lead to a model and chambering designation.To my mind any of these should be considred to be Blackpowder rated revovlers and not fired.regardless of condition with factory smokeless loadings. In 1902 the company was sold to Hopkins & Allen, Co.
YOU can research the firearm with the help of a book by the late Joseph T. Vorisek titled A Short History of the Forehand Arms Company.it is available from 'ABBY' at www.cornellpubs.com. Is it a solid frame, is a centerfire or a rimfire? I can add this.in a copy of the advertisment for the F&W Rev it clearly states that a certain DA Forehand and Wadsworth is chambered for:.32 Short RF.32 Long Rimfire and is equipped with rubber stock,nickle plated.6-shot and that the only CF is in.38 caliber. Further on in Vorisek book it sez.
The correct caliber for this forehand arms co. (1890-1899) is 32 S&W or 32 M&H (aka 32 H&R). The 32 S&W Long cartridge was not introduced until about 1896 or 1897 when S&W introduced their first revolver with the side swing out cylinder the Model I hand ejector and to the best of my knowledge was never offer as a black powder loading. The first loading was what was called semi-smokeless?
Forehand Arms Co Serial Numbers
(exact powder used unknown). If you look in old catalogs from early 1900 where black powder loaded cartridges were offered the 32 S&W Long is never listed only the 32 S&W, 32 M&H or 32 H&R. The same catalogs will list in the smokeless loads the 32 S&W and the 32 S&W Long but not the 32 M&H or 32 H&R. These last two lost out in popularity to the new 32 S&W Long.
In 1905 H&R started listing their large frame 6 shot 32 caliber revolvers (solid frame and top break) as being chambered for the 32 S&W Long. None of the H&A catalogs i have seen mention the 32 S&W Long as a caliber for their revolvers. It is not safe to assume any of these early 32 are safe with the 32 S&W Long just because the cylinder is long enough to accept them. The cylinder length on H&R 6 shot 32's was lengthen about 1/8 inch in 1905 for the 32 S&W Long. 1905 was the year H&R made the switch to smokeless powder.bill. Bill/Frank, There was, at one time a.32 S&W long factory load using 13.0 grains of Fg blackpowder and a 98 gr lead bullet.
Forehand Arms Company Serial Numbers
The publication, Cartridges of the World, 10th edition makes mention of this on page 275 with the notation that the BP load was the 'Original' factory loading for the cartridge. Ballistically it is superior to the smokeless factory load of the 98 gr wadcutter at 705 fps and developing 115 ft lbs of energy.the old BP load with a 98 gr RN bullet developed 780 fps and 132 ft lbs of energy.
The operating pressure of the.32 S&W long is 12,000 CUP or 15,000 PSI to develop the SAAMI factory maximum specs. In any event, if a handload of Fg is used with a 90-100 grain bullet the case.short or long should be filled with BP to the point that the seated bullet will compress the powder charge by 1/8th' minimum. Better yet, the procedure outlined by Paul A. Matthews in Loading the Black Powder Rifle Cartridge, can be applied to straight walled revolver rounds as well. The use of proper lubricants.grease cookies etc will make shooting cleaner and safer.
In another publication.The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge conversions by John J. Donnelly there is some discussion on the care and handling of BP loads, but the formula he uses to convert to smokeless is for RIFLE cartridges using IMR4198.which, to my knowledge, is not a recommended powder in any handgun cartridge. Personally, if I were to load for this old gun.assuming that it is servicable in all other respects.and I wanted a smokeless loading.I would consult Hodgdon/IMR on the use of their Cowboy powder called 'TRAIL BOSS'. You should probably approach Hodgdon, which makes Pyrodex, with that issue.
The farther you get from the original black powder (BP) loads for which the old revolver was manufactured, the farther you go into 'uncharted territory' regarding safe internal ballistics for shooting these old revolvers. (I've got a bunch of them, and determining safe smokeless powder loads duplicating BP ballistics is always a conundrum.)If Hodgdon says it's O.K.
And they have published Pyrodex loads for your revolver's cartridge (on their website - check for this first, or in a manual - you will have to buy this), then you've got it. If they don't list loads on their website that you need, or you don't want to spend the money on their manual, ask for specific load data when you inquire about the usability of Pyrodex for your item. I'm not into Pyrodex, but I BELIEVE that the standard procedure is, USING THE CORRECT GRANULATION, you use an equal volume of Pyrodex for the same volume of BP. This assumes, of course, that as a reloader you have a powder scale and can weigh out the BP loads of the original ammo and can convert The volumes of those loads to Pyrodex loads.